Well, the entire thread (the last two posts) has finally ended. The Titusonenine “elves” (those who mind the weblog) have shut us down.
I do understand what the guy is saying: the whole of Scripture speaks against same-sex relationships that include certain behaviors and that all examples of same-sex behaviors are negative and that there are no positive examples, either. So, whether there are positive qualities in same-sex relationships that include certain behaviors makes no difference, Scripture speaks consistently against all forms of behavior, period.
I contend that the presumption that all forms of same-sex relationships is a faulty premise to begin with and that this faulty premise clouds our right reading of Scripture, particularly of those few verses traditionally strung together to justify a anti-relationship position.
I agree that the examples of same-sex behaviors mentioned in Scripture are negative – but negative like: gang rape, in the progression of idolatry heterosexuals engaging in same-sex sexual behaviors contrary to their heterosexual nature. All examples present a negative image, but all the examples of negative behavior are in fact negative, whether engaged in by homosexual people or heterosexual people.
Of course, when Paul uses the word “nature” in Romans chapter 1, what does he in fact mean? “Natural Theology” had not been developed yet. And even if this were the case and we could look to all of nature, God’s creation, to discern what is proper and what is not, how does one neglect examples of same-sex sexual behavior among animals (I’ve seen plenty of male dogs mount other male dogs, etc.). What does one do with human hermaphrodites? And, if we are consistent, look at the violence within the animal kingdom. Do we want to take this as our example of a right ordering of human society? It looks more like “social Darwinism – survival of the fittest” than the call of Christ to love our neighbor as ourselves.
From what I understand, the prevailing Hellenistic (Platonic) definition of “nature” is more like one is left-handed by nature, blue-eyed by nature, tall by nature, a man by nature, etc. Thus, if Paul was trying to explain something to the people then, did he use a Platonic understanding of “nature?” If he did, then “nature” should be understood to imply “heterosexuals by nature” who are engaging in homosexual sexual acts contrary to the “nature,” likewise, if there in fact is a “homosexual orientation,” then if homosexuals engage in heterosexual sexual acts then they, too, are acting contrary to their homosexual “nature.”
But then again, lots of people disagree with this line of thinking. I don’t really know within a Jewish system what “nature” might mean. We can certainly assume that if the Jews of the time where obedient in obeying the Law, then men would not be engaged in things like what a man does with a woman with another man.
By the way in answering one of my many questions of him (which aside from this one he refused to answer), it was made clear that his method of engaging Scripture is within an interpretive system that is not Anglican. He seems to be a premillennial dispensationalist, which if fine if one wants to be because God only knows what the end will look like, but it is not an Anglican theological perspective. I wonder what he understands Anglicanism to be, and why he would attend and Anglican church, and why he finds it rewarding to post on an Anglican blog. Who knows.
Anyway, the Triduum continues, Easter is shortly upon us. The grave will not hold!